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Jason - 3 Eyz · Site Admin Joined: 10 Jan 2008 Posts: 252

Ok folks, sorry to do it,.. but can't help myself..

Did anyone find the scoring at Salisbury to very inconsistent, more than average??? Is this the result of the new word associations or non-certified judges??

I saw some of our scores with judges giving us 5 while another did 9... I understand 9 versus 8, or 9 versus 7, but 9 versus 5???? I heard from at least one other team that had the same trend.

If you hate our food, fine (not really, but for this purpose ok Very Happy

), score it that way across the board. If you like it, great.

For those CBJs out there, does it frustrate you when you get feedback like this?? If I were a CBJ, I would get frustrated if the issue was mostly from non certified judges that may give the judging crew a "bad name". We did walk in ribs, so I can't complain completely. But those that know us, know that our chicken is usually pretty decent. This turn-in was on par with the others than won 1st place and we would up 74th or something like that.

Aside from the judging, had a great time, good hanging with everyone, and can't wait until the next one.

Judges - thank you for doing what you guys do regardless of my gripe. WIthout judging, there would be no contests.
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Pig Headed · Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 4:09 pm Post subject:

Jason,

Not to sound like I have sour grapes, but I concur wholeheartedly. We too got 5's and 9's on the same entry. That's a huge swing that shouldn't be there. I wish KCBS had adopted the experiment they started last year and make it mandatory that all judges fill out a comment card for all entries.

I don't want to start anyathing, but I thought the whole team turn in box distribution to be very haphazard which leaves questions in my mind. I have not been competing that long, but every other competition that I've been in including Salisbury has the numbers printed on lables, not hand written on the boxes.

All that being said, we still had a great time and think Sandy is one of the best organizers out there.
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carlharper · Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 5:29 pm Post subject:

Inconsistency in scoring is a topic brought up frequently and often vehemenly by the cooks. I wish I had an answer. My plan this season is to make an effort at each contest to encourage some discussion after each category is scored so that I can better understand how other judges arrive at their scores.

I would have started at Salisbury ,but as luck would have it my tablemates included two newly trained CBJ's judging their first contest and three "celebrity judges" which I learned were local Salisbury residents pressed into service each year for the contest. They did not attend a CBJ class. Please don't construe this description as being negative.

I was a bit concerned after learning that five people at the same table had minimal experience and/or training. Our table captain was a BBQ contest veteran from NC and I quietly informed him of the situation and asked that he look over each round of scoring for any glaring scoring differences. There apparently were none, as he felt no need to question any of the scores.

After each category we identified those entries that we liked best and least. The results were very consistent. I can't say how wide a scoring variance there was on say the two favorite entries in a given category. I feel that everyone took their task seriously and judged each entry as fairly as they could.

I'll make a more concerted effort to sit with as many experienced judges as possible at future contest and to encourage more discussion of the scoring. Andy from Hershey was one of the new CBJ's at the table. I'm sure he will chime in with his impressions.
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Big Ugly BBQ · Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 5:51 pm Post subject:

I saw some great differences in scoring on our boxes, from one end to another. Like my daughter, Kaiti, said after reading our scores, "did the judges look at the same box?"

All in all, it was a great contest, and I still learned a great deal and would go back next year. They put on a great show, but I believe if we are going to have 100 (or more) teams, like they envision, then the contest needs to have certified judges, not guest judges. Use the guests for the Fri night turn-ins, or even the whole hog.

Carl, I appreciate all that you and the other judges do, don't get me wrong please. But when three of the six give 7, 8, 9's, and one gives 5, and 4's, something is not clicking.
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carlharper · Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 6:20 pm Post subject:

Chris,

I agree that something is likely wrong when wide scoring differences occur, but I am also learning that there are many little factors that could contribute to the differences. One of the rib entries at our table had noticeable differences and were obviously not from the same rack. Some looked more moist and meaty than others. Different servings from the same box can vary in quality. Remember that the lowest score is thrown out.

I'm sure that this is extremely frustrating for the teams. I read every judging thread that I run across and am not bothered by most of the criticism that is brought up. There will alway be a small number of cooks who will constantly gripe about all judges, just as there may be a small number of judges that don't think any of the food they taste is worth a high score. That's why they throw out the lowest score at each table and why they make a concerted effort to not have one team's entry judged at the same table more than once.
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Big Ugly BBQ · Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 6:55 pm Post subject:

Carl,

We're going to have get our Tallboys together, fire 'em up and see what we can do. After this weekend, it appears that I still have some work to do.

Thank you for the insight and sanity check, like we talked about last weekend, anything can and will, probably happen.
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Jason - 3 Eyz · Site Admin Joined: 10 Jan 2008 Posts: 252

Carl,

I agree with you about the celebrity judges issue. Not that we are truely comparing, but olympics don't have guest judges judging figure skating or ski jumping, or other events with subjective judging. You also don't see wide ranges of scores generally across the board. I understand I am making a stretch here, but same principal.

I assume it's hard to get enough certified judges down in the Salisbury area when the team total goes above 60 or so, but it's something they will need to work on to prevent these issues. Again, all of this is my 2 cents and thank you to the judges for what you do!!
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rag · Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 8:33 pm Post subject:

I did not see any scoring sheets, just the awards....and....I left there stunned by the judging. I won't say which, or what teams I focused on. My comment to Barb on the way home was that "it looks like if your entries are above average, then it's a crap shoot from there on, vs. excellence".
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VA BBQ PIRATES · Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 8:33 pm Post subject:

I'm a little new to this this whole BBQ thing and agree that in Salisbery the judging wasn't the greatest. I think my Purdue entry was great so I am happy with that. My left over ribs went into the trash. No idea why they liked them - It cuts both ways and sometimes it's in your favor and sometimes it bites you in the ass - and we did see some wide scores but that is going to happen IMHO.

Tom
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Big George'S BBQ · Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 9:18 pm Post subject:

I have not had a chance to judge yet, and only took the class at New Holland this year. I have wondered how I would do. I remembered my first contest last year in the Back Yard comp in Yardly. I had some wide discrepancies and was told that should not be. I thing a new judge like myself should be mentored at the table by an experienced judge at a comp. I am nervous to be a judge because if I caused the wide discepancy I could prevent a team from doing well. I can say I scored fairly close to the rest of the table. If a new judge is parred wit an experienced judge at least they could discuss how and why they scorred something after it was over so that learning would take place and good judging would ocurr.
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Mutha Chicken BBQ · Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 10:08 pm Post subject:

carlharper · Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 5:36 am Post subject:

Big George,

Your desire for a mentor is something you can easily do on your own. When you get to your first contest just introduce yourself to some of the experienced judges as a rookie and ask them to help you out. You will recognize the experienced ones.......They will be the ones that seem to know everyone! I'm sure they will appreciate your wanting to get started on the right foot.
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Big Ugly BBQ · Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 7:16 am Post subject:

Bill The Grill Guy · Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 7:20 am Post subject:

I have always thought that to become a judge, you should be requered to cook with a team. I know its a rec to become a master judge but by then you already have habits being good or bad.

I have only judged one contest. I learned a lot but,,,,,,,,,,,,,, I knew what the teams had been going through to turn in each and every box. We, as teams, (okay most of us) take a lot of pride in the way the box looks and how the meat tastes. A judge should know what lenghts we go through to get to that point.

OUR scores were all over the map as well. There was also a screw up with our team numbers. John Bush came up to us on friday evening and asked what number ours was. When I told him, he said that 2 entries had been turned in under that number. NOW HOW DOES THAT HAPPEN? He garenteed us that it was straightend out but it does make you think. Has this happend before?
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Big George'S BBQ · Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 7:59 am Post subject:

When I am able to judge a contest I had planned to find an experienced judge to sit with. I figured I would just ask.
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